MauriceStargell.com

Wow !! This was very enlighten. Just re-emphasize my belief that prosperity teaching is a flase teaching . It cleary goes against the scripture Psalms23:1 The Lord is my sheppard I shall Not want. God will give you what you want because he is our sheppard,it doesn’t say give money then the Lord will give you what u want.

Good conversation.
First, I would say that when I give, God does not owe me a thing, He has already given it all. In my understanding he owns it all. He allows me to give back a tithe + offering because he knows that by giving I show my trust in Him, my love for Him, and my obedience.
Second, I believe that the scripture teaches that the righteous will not go hungry (David). That doesn’t mean I won’t struggle. It means God is going to take care of my needs.
Third, I agree that there are preachers that have confused good news/gospel with prosperity. The gospel is that Jesus came seeking and saving the lost, healing the blind and the sick. In none of the descriptions of the gospel does Jesus or Paul mention money. In fact if God owes me a Cadillac when I give seed money of $100 or $1000 then He may owe an apology to the widow who gave her mite, the tax collector who gave back 10 fold what he had stolen. I don’t see people prospering from the gospel, I see people sacrificing for the gospel.
Fourth, I believe a man is worthy of his hire (Paul). I don’t think a pastor should go hungry but I don’t think he should grow rich off of the church. If he is able to write books or speak at conferences, so be it (but don’t neglect the church, that is your calling). He should not fear paying his bills or feeding his family. But sometimes that will come from the hand of God through a servant of God.
Fifth, I do believe that God honors the faithful giving of His people, people who give cheerfully, without constraint, without expectation. God provides for His people who obey. Giving is one area of obedience.
If Creflo is right, I’m reading the wrong Bible and God owes all the poor Christians in our inner cities, and in the third world an apology. My God does not make mistakes and He is not so cruel as to require someone to give to feed me or my church when they cannot feed themselves.
I could go on and on, but not enough time or space. There is a balance I hope the church finds it.

My goodness. I wonder what the entire message that day was. Suspect about that. In other news, how do you feel about church members giving permission to automatically take 10% of their paycheck to go to a church?

I think we must remember that prosperity cannot always be limited to money.

Prosperity means… a successful, flourishing, or thriving condition, in some cases preachers have taken it too far with emphasis on money, however God is a God who desires to prosper us. Through our submitting to him and the process of destruction upon our flesh he prospers us. Whether that be financially, physically, or mentally…when we give our life to him and trust him with it (and that includes money) he will prosper us. His word always say he brought us out us darkness into the marvelous light…this is a sign or God making our life better and us smarter!

So we should not view God as a person sitting in heaven planning for us to remain poor and defeated, he uses situations in our lives for his Glory, so if someone prospers and give God glory for it and they can relate it to when they gave or something, then let him have it! Whether we’re prospering or going through a storm, it should not matter as long as he is receiving the Glory!

It’s makes me sick to look at this. Then it’s sad it’s mostly “us” that is eating this stuff up because it’s feed into the belief that someone owes us something. This is just foolishness and we really think God is into all of this? Have we grown that STUPID?!? You mean to tell me that God want EVERYONE rich??!?! Right… I guess we forgot that Jesus said that we will ALWAYS have the poor with us. And it’s also funny that the early church shared all of their possessions and they wanted for nothing. That has nothing to do with being RICH materially in the worldly US version. You can want for nothing and not be rich. It’s all about accepting our lot in life, whatever God has for us, as long as we have Him. Yes, I like my bills paid and everything to be paid off like the next person but you don’t have to be rich to do that. If God CHOOSES certain people to be rich, that’s cool. I have nothing against rich people. The problem is when we get all of this wealth, 9 times out of 10, we forget God and we pat our butts to Him and go on like we don’t know Him. That’s what He has a problem with. It’s a fine line in letting things take over us and not letting God take over us. We’re too easy to get caught up in the things and snares of this life. God knows we’ll lose our everlasting minds if some of us get rich too quick, with no foundation or real relationship with Jesus at all. God is our reward, not money or thing, or even blessings. When we get that figured out, then He can bless us with some things. He’s not against us having nice things. But they are not an end to themselves, God is. He is the only one that can satisfy!!! Like Biggie Smalls says, more money, more problems. No thank you, I have enough on my plate!!!

You already know what I think…ITS GARBAGE!

@Jim Akins
Thanks Jim. Excellent thoughts, great balance.

@Ron Gary
Ron — that’s it my friend! God IS our reward and our portion!

@Fredrick Giles
Fredrick – does it bring glory and honor to Jesus for a church of thousands of people to throw money onto the altar and for the preachers to run and dance on top of the money during a worship service? Does it compel the lost to surrender their lives to Jesus? Does it edify the believers? If so, how? Does the gospel that Jesus preached and that Paul preached instruct or encourage us to “pull the lever” and yell “Money Cometh to Me — Now!”??? How does any of that ascribe glory to Jesus? How does it relate to the glorious gospel that we are instructed to proclaim and protect?

I need a few minutes to gather my thoughts. But, rest assured, my two cents worth (more like two dollars worth) is coming. Not that my thoughts are worth more, but I have a heavy word about this nonsense.

Tears come to the brim of my eyelids watching all of those people get ensnared in the simplest trick of the enemy. It’s so sad that these people are blinded by their own greed. And greater judgement for these so-called pastors and men of the Only True God. Unless they repent, they shall die in their sins!!!

Jeremiah 23:9-40

Lying Prophets

9 My heart within me is broken Because of the prophets; All my bones shake. I am like a drunken man, And like a man whom wine has overcome, Because of the Lord, And because of His holy words.
10 For the land is full of adulterers; For because of a curse the land mourns. The pleasant places of the wilderness are dried up. Their course of life is evil, And their might is not right.
11 “For both prophet and priest are profane; Yes, in My house I have found their wickedness,” says the Lord.
12 “Therefore their way shall be to them Like slippery ways; In the darkness they shall be driven on And fall in them; For I will bring disaster on them, The year of their punishment,” says the Lord.
13 “And I have seen folly in the prophets of Samaria: They prophesied by Baal And caused My people Israel to err.
14 Also I have seen a horrible thing in the prophets of Jerusalem: They commit adultery and walk in lies; They also strengthen the hands of evildoers, So that no one turns back from his wickedness. All of them are like Sodom to Me, And her inhabitants like Gomorrah.
15 “Therefore thus says the Lord of hosts concerning the prophets: ‘Behold, I will feed them with wormwood, And make them drink the water of gall; For from the prophets of Jerusalem Profaneness has gone out into all the land.’ ”
16 Thus says the Lord of hosts: “Do not listen to the words of the prophets who prophesy to you. They make you worthless; They speak a vision of their own heart, Not from the mouth of the Lord.
17 They continually say to those who despise Me, ‘The Lord has said, “You shall have peace” ’; And to everyone who walks according to the dictates of his own heart, they say, ‘No evil shall come upon you.’ ”
18 For who has stood in the counsel of the Lord, And has perceived and heard His word? Who has marked His word and heard it?
19 Behold, a whirlwind of the Lord has gone forth in fury— A violent whirlwind! It will fall violently on the head of the wicked.
20 The anger of the Lord will not turn back Until He has executed and performed the thoughts of His heart. In the latter days you will understand it perfectly.
21 “I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran. I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied.
22 But if they had stood in My counsel, And had caused My people to hear My words, Then they would have turned them from their evil way And from the evil of their doings.
23 “Am I a God near at hand,” says the Lord, “And not a God afar off?
24 Can anyone hide himself in secret places, So I shall not see him?” says the Lord; “Do I not fill heaven and earth?” says the Lord.
25 “I have heard what the prophets have said who prophesy lies in My name, saying, ‘I have dreamed, I have dreamed!’
26 How long will this be in the heart of the prophets who prophesy lies? Indeed they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart,
27 who try to make My people forget My name by their dreams which everyone tells his neighbor, as their fathers forgot My name for Baal.
28 “The prophet who has a dream, let him tell a dream; And he who has My word, let him speak My word faithfully. What is the chaff to the wheat?” says the Lord.
29 “Is not My word like a fire?” says the Lord, “And like a hammer that breaks the rock in pieces?
30 “Therefore behold, I am against the prophets,” says the Lord, “who steal My words every one from his neighbor.
31 Behold, I am against the prophets,” says the Lord, “who use their tongues and say, ‘He says.’
32 Behold, I am against those who prophesy false dreams,” says the Lord, “and tell them, and cause My people to err by their lies and by their recklessness. Yet I did not send them or command them; therefore they shall not profit this people at all,” says the Lord.
33 “So when these people or the prophet or the priest ask you, saying, ‘What is the oracle of the Lord?’ you shall then say to them, ‘What oracle?’ I will even forsake you,” says the Lord.
34 “And as for the prophet and the priest and the people who say, ‘The oracle of the Lord!’ I will even punish that man and his house.
35 Thus every one of you shall say to his neighbor, and every one to his brother, ‘What has the Lord answered?’ and, ‘What has the Lord spoken?’
36 And the oracle of the Lord you shall mention no more. For every man’s word will be his oracle, for you have perverted the words of the living God, the Lord of hosts, our God.
37 Thus you shall say to the prophet, ‘What has the Lord answered you?’ and, ‘What has the Lord spoken?’
38 But since you say, ‘The oracle of the Lord!’ therefore thus says the Lord: ‘Because you say this word, “The oracle of the Lord!” and I have sent to you, saying, “Do not say, ‘The oracle of the Lord!’ ”
39 therefore behold, I, even I, will utterly forget you and forsake you, and the city that I gave you and your fathers, and will cast you out of My presence.
40 And I will bring an everlasting reproach upon you, and a perpetual shame, which shall not be forgotten.’ ”

It is safe to say we are in the ditch, with the prosperity message….I ‘m not against material wealth, but I am not overly concerned with it either. The chuch has to get back to the heart of GOD “souls”, relationship….ect. and give the money a mission.

@Jim Akins

@Jim Akins
check elijah out taking from a widow her last meal in order to effect a miracle of finacial provision for her, and it worked!

anything can get out of balance. creflo is not just a money preacher, but he teaches how to prosper and if you ask many of his key leaders(not just paid staff) you will see that the principles continue to work for them also.
i know many of them personally.
money is neutral, it can be used for mission projects, building churches, buying jets, feeding the hungry, all of which i don’t think are wrong.
bill gates needs a jet to get to his meetings and creflo needs a jet to get to his meetings, they are both CEO’s.

Wow. Charles. Really?

Creflo Dollar needs a jet? As in, one of his base needs is a jet? What happened to our needs being the fruit of the Spirit? Or a move of God? Wow. DO WE NOT REALIZE THAT THIS ISSUE IS OUT OF BALANCE BECAUSE OF THESE KNUCKLEHEAD FALSE PROPHETS MAKING IT THAT WAY?

I was going to use the same passage from Jeremiah as Rob Hicks did, so see up a few comments for the text basis for my thoughts. Here is the simple fact–I don’t care who you are, how long you have been a believer, how much schooling you have, or what sort of job titles you might take or obtain or usurp–once you take a pulpit, or another position of authority over a flock, YOU ARE HELD TO A HIGHER STANDARD. And, with that higher standard comes a greater reward, but also a greater condemnation (James 3). James was not joking with the Jewish Diaspora when he WARNED them of becoming a teacher/preacher. Nor was Jeremiah joking when he prophesied about the fate of the false teachers of his day either. The LORD will not be mocked; this prosperity gospel is mockery and idolatry. Jesus himself said that we cannot serve both God and mammon (money/stuff). These imbecile men dancing on the money and playing fake slot machines is not some cultural or ethnic abnormality, it is an outpouring of a heart condition. Obviously, where your treasure is….there your heart will be also. Forgive me when I say that I do not pray for these men. My prayers are for the life-worn saint who sits in their own living room and gives these men their last few dollars while they rituallistically pull the slot handle themselves. I know of a good place for these people: headlining in Las Vegas.

I would like to enter the discussion with one clarifying question to Charles. When did the shepherds of God’s people go from humble servants to CEO’s. Just a question… I would like to know what biblical impetus this has, and where the text speaks to it.

That prosperity gospel will not go far with me. My husband and I have both been unemployed since July 2008, yet we have been blessed. The lessons we have learned during these tough financial times are not lessons anyone can learn without experience. I know my God and He is with me. The examples in scripture show God being with his most favored people, but not with blessings of monetary wealth. See Lazarus and the Rich Man, who was in the Lord’s bosom? How can the Lord say we fed one of his own, if none of us ever needs food? The greatest example of the gospel will be preached by the man (or woman) who lives under a bridge and still praises the Lord for his blessings. It’s easy to praise when your pantry is full. Praising and preaching when you have no pantry- that’s a believer! Our blessings are not monetary or physical, but spiritual. The lessons I have learned are blessings and are worth more than all the money in the world. The next time you see a hungry or homeless person, remember they may be an angel of the Lord in disguise and treat them accordingly. Our riches are stored where moth and rust does not decay. It’s not about what we have here. It’s about what we have where we are going.

A question for thought: How many of us would still believe God was with us if we lived under a bridge?

Sorry for the late response but Stargell you already know where I stand on that issue. I going to speak it now, Money cometh to Me. Well I’m sorry to say it but it didn’t show up. I think there it’s manipulation on the minds of the people.

I personally think that this so called “prosperity gospel” is not biblical. I do believe the word of God is meant to prosper us in every area of our lives, but the Gospel is not for hire. Its Not to be “used” for financial profit! Simon the sorcerer in the book of Acts chapter 8 tried to offer money for the power of God. The implication was evident…he was trying to use the Gospel to make a profit and you know the end of the story; Peter responded candidly letting him know that he would be destroyed w/ his money b/c his motives were wrong!

Question, Which is God against?

God is against prosperity, preaching that say’s that God will prosper you, or Creflo Dollar’s and Leroy Thompson’s version of the Gospel?

Wow! Wow! Wow! All I can say is wow… The first clip made my stomach turn man. That is crazy. The commentator made an interesting point, “what about the poor?” The prosperity gospel in some way has messed people up. Just look at the camps at the end of the movie. People who have lost hope because they were not preached hope, they were preached money. Hope Church will do just the opposite because your name says so. Go do it man!!! Much prayer for you…

This is really sick….creepy….and WRONG!!! I heard of churches doing this …..wow man….wow dude…..